Brick
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Posts: 120
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Post by Brick on Sept 13, 2007 6:58:45 GMT -5
I heard yesterday morning that 50% of church going Christians don't believe that they are saved. Do you? Why or why not?
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Post by Ken Coolidge on Sept 13, 2007 9:11:16 GMT -5
Where did you hear this Brick? in Meeting How do you know one way or another My opinion this is how I know- so feel free to have a different one. 1) Each day I feel the Holy Spirit prodding to do more with the time I have left and corrects me when I start judging others 2) I am able to witness Gods spirit dealing wih the poor and homeless souls 3)I hunger and thirst for Gods will to be accomplished in me and all I come in contact with 4) I want to show by my Life who I Love not by my words but my actions
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Brick
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Posts: 120
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Post by Brick on Sept 13, 2007 9:53:05 GMT -5
I heard it on the radio this morning. A Christian radio station.
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Post by Ken Coolidge on Sept 13, 2007 14:32:53 GMT -5
You perhaps could understand that to report that in a Sunday morning meeting would reinforce the wrong thought. Just my opinion. The following is fact I can remember someone in our meeting in our home belittling a lady who tried to share her missionary experience in South America and Gods dealing with her. It was said "How could this be Gods work if we aren't doing it."
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Post by shushy on Sept 13, 2007 14:51:47 GMT -5
Yes Brick its true. People go to church and are good living people because its how they were brought up. A lot of main line churchs are examples of this. They go to church every week, faithfully pay their tithes. They think that is the begining and end of their commitment to God. They are not born again or baptised. Some are baptised. How do I know? Because I mixed in these circles went to their churches and was shocked when we discovered a lot do not know Christ. Not all churches teach you need to be bornagain. Then there are those who do not think they are saved because of a lack of teaching.
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Post by Ken Coolidge on Sept 13, 2007 17:32:53 GMT -5
The article Windblown has some good reading about Borrn again "Born Again We have certainly cheapened this passage in the past 50 years by applying the term ‘born again’ to those who have said a sinner’s prayer, been baptized, or those who go to a ‘Bible-believing’ fellowship as opposed to a more liberal one. The term ‘born again’ is often used today synonymously with the term ‘evangelical’ to validate a conservative brand of Christianity and question the faith of others who don’t use the same label. We have turned a term Jesus used to invite people into his kingdom into the most divisive term in Christendom, proving that we missed his point entirely. If Jesus were going to define his kingdom by a creed, this was his time to say it. If Nicodemus could see the kingdom by participating in certain rituals or sacraments or ascribing to the ethics of a Godly life, Jesus would have told him here. Jesus was not refining the religion of the Old Covenant; he was offering a new way of living that was indefinable and incomprehensible to the natural mind. Nicodemus didn’t need new principles; he needed to start his spiritual journey all over again. The religion he knew so well could never evolve into a life-transforming faith. Being born again meant that in spiritual things he needed to lay down everything he thought he knew and learn a life based on the Spirit. Jesus knew that would be difficult for a man so steeped in religion, and Nicodemus’ ensuing struggle over Jesus’ words demonstrated how right he was. " This is in line with the statistic and Shushy comments Thanks for your comments .
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 13, 2007 19:34:53 GMT -5
I don't go to church...but even if I did right now, I don't believe I am saved at this particular moment. I am a good person for the most part, yes...but we are not saved by good works alone,as we know. Also, many here believe we are saved soley by grace. I believe we are saved by grace AND works...but not our own good works here on this Earth..but rather we have to be living a Godly life in addition to having the grace of God in our lives. I know many say that the two go hand in hand, but I don't agree. They are SUPPOSED to, perhaps, but they don't always. For example, I have known many people in various churches..who go to meetings, masses, etc...every Sunday, Wednesday, etc..whenever..but they don't live very Godly lives during the rest of the week. I'm not judging them as far as whether they will be saved or not..I know as well as anyone that that's not my place....but I do know that they believe in God and claim to love him...but I don't see much witness of Christ in their lives. So...this is why I believe grace...YES...and our own behavior. We have to be TRULY accepting him....not just lip service. Maybe that's a better, more concise, way to put what I've been trying to say. Mich
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Brick
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Posts: 120
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Post by Brick on Sept 13, 2007 19:43:19 GMT -5
Not that anyone really asked me, but I believe we are saved by the grace of God, providing that we have sufficient faith to believe that AND have repented from our sins. If we continue in God's will, we will manifest WORKS of faith, taking steps in God's will as opposed to our sinful nature. But those works don't save us, they are just a manifestation of the indwelling of the holy spirit.
My two cents worth.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 13, 2007 19:46:17 GMT -5
Right..but what about those who CLAIM to be saved by the grace of God, but you see no manifestation of the Holy Spirit in their lives and they continue on in past sinful ways that they supposedly "repented" from? That's what I'm talking about really...not that what you said (and most others say) isn't absolutely true...just that that manifestation of the Holy Spirit in our lives is necessary as well...not just "saying it". M.
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Post by Ken Coolidge on Sept 13, 2007 20:05:45 GMT -5
100% agreement
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Post by shushy on Sept 13, 2007 20:20:55 GMT -5
It is the fruit of repentence that shows people you have changed. It is the evidence of.
Good behaviour isnt what gets someone into heaven. There is only one door. Jesus.Salvation is a gift from God. We can never earn it, ever.
You dont know if you are saved? The way to find out is this. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of the living God, was born of a virgin, crucified on a cross for the sins of the world. Arose on the 3rd day, is sitting on the right hand of the Father in Heaven ever interceeding for us. Through his sacrifice and our confessing with our lips he is Lord. We now have eteranl life with him in heaven. Also we are nbow reconciled with the Father and can have a relatiosnhip with him. If you say yes to all that you are born again. When we are born again the Holy Spirit enters our Spirit supernaturaly. We are babes in Christ and the way our spirit man gets fed is through the word of God/prayer and fellowship. As we grow in Christ our spiritman grows expands.
Somewhere it says 'one mans meat is another mans poison. I have enough to deal with with my own life without judging someone else because they are an alcoholic, thief etc. We will always have our own flesh to deal with until we die. The main thing is to keep working at our weakness's. Try to encourage each other. I used to think I had it all together and was not so much of a sinner but a good person...boy did I have a wake up call. If you call me a sinner I am the first to admit it now. I learned a hard lesson. Self righteousness stinks and so does pride. If you sniff it on me tell me. I hate it.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 13, 2007 20:50:14 GMT -5
Good behaviour isnt what gets someone into heaven. There is only one door. Jesus.Salvation is a gift from God. We can never earn it, ever. But by this definition (and I do know what you're getting at and agree to some extent..but see my posts, above....) wouldn't ANYONE who believed in God be saved? Perhaps this is where our beliefs differ, and that's fine. We can agree to disagree with this bit...but while I believe that Jesus IS our salvation and we are not saved 'but for the grace of God," yes...we must also see evidence of that in our lives...through repentance and CHANGE...not repeating the same sinful behaviors over and over and over.... You know what I mean! also you said... "Somewhere it says 'one mans meat is another mans poison. I have enough to deal with with my own life without judging someone else because they are an alcoholic, thief etc. We will always have our own flesh to deal with until we die" I could NOT agree more. I certainly have my own share of faults...and I may have repented, but some of the behaviors I have not changed...repentance or not. Maybe that means I have not TRULY repented. I certainly do NOT intend to judge anyone else, however! These are the sort of things I am talking about and why I don't believe I am saved at this moment. I need to work on those things. Again, we can agree to disagree. Just how I see it. M.
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Post by justaskgod on Sept 13, 2007 23:00:28 GMT -5
Know one asked me either But here is my two cents worth....
If there ever was something I could do to earn salvation, I'd stuff it up, or eventually lose it. But, I'm glad that my salvation is already bought and paid for. It was settled on a Wednesday afternoon, just outside of Jerusalem, on an old rugged cross, almost 2,000 years ago, by a man named Jesus. Tells us very plainly that we will be saved if we know God, just depends if you want to claim the prize of the holy city or not. My 'faith' is resting in that. I'm willing to die believing that. Are you?
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no name
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"I'll do what I can to see they go easy on you." (Grammaton Cleric John Preston - Equilibrium)
Posts: 44
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Post by no name on Sept 14, 2007 1:28:41 GMT -5
Not that anyone really asked me, but I believe we are saved by the grace of God, providing that we have sufficient faith to believe that AND have repented from our sins. If we continue in God's will, we will manifest WORKS of faith, taking steps in God's will as opposed to our sinful nature. But those works don't save us, they are just a manifestation of the indwelling of the holy spirit. My two cents worth. Excellent point . . . . I feel the same. You word it so much better than I could. Right..but what about those who CLAIM to be saved by the grace of God, but you see no manifestation of the Holy Spirit in their lives and they continue on in past sinful ways that they supposedly "repented" from? I'd say that they don't seem to have really repented, and I wonder about their actual salvation, but ultimately I'm leaving that between them and God.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 14, 2007 3:47:14 GMT -5
Very true too, No Name, and I believe I said as much...I have my own eternity to worry about! I don't often disagree with you or Brick concerning *most* things. M.
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