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Post by zorro unplugged on Sept 14, 2007 14:42:31 GMT -5
But by this definition (and I do know what you're getting at and agree to some extent..but see my posts, above....) wouldn't ANYONE who believed in God be saved?
This is a good question. The operative word here is "believe". Sometimes folks think that saving faith and casual belief are the same thing, but they're not.
Scriptural faith is really the combination of three components and all three need to be present:
1. Knowledge that something is true 2. Acceptance that it is true 3. Trust in what you know and accept as true.
As regards "saving" faith, the "something" is "saving grace" and all that it entails (Christ's blood, God's mercy, etc).
Take your example for instance. Someone simply says that they "believe". Do they know what they believe in? Maybe, maybe not. If they don't even know what they believe, how can they accept that "belief" into their heart as true? And ultimately, how can they truly trust in something they don't even know, let alone accept?
Another example is James saying that the devils "believe". Were they saved? Did they have knowledge of God? Yes. Did they accept that he was truly God? Yes. Did they trust that he could and would save them, direct and control them, etc. No.
If you look at your own faith before God and question your own salvation, somewhere one of these components is lacking, missing, or perhaps simply not fully acknowledged.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 14, 2007 15:16:52 GMT -5
Thx, Zorro I guess it's part 3 that I have the "issue" with in my own life (or in general, for that matter.) I knowledge of God and definitely believe he IS an all knowing, all powerful, loving God...I believe in Christ and that he died for all of our sins, and I also believe God will direct and control us...IF WE LET HIM. If we conform to and comply with his will. NOt that God couldn't "make us" per say..if he wanted to...but we have free will. And here is the stickler for me.... Mich
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Post by zorro unplugged on Sept 14, 2007 15:35:02 GMT -5
Michelle, Really I think it's pretty common for folks to have a hard time really coming to grips with the "trust" issue. On the other hand it's not uncommon for folks to possess a "blind" faith that says " I believe" but have no idea what they have faith in. If you look at the issue from these two completely different perspectives you can understand why all three components are necessary for true, biblical, saving faith.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 14, 2007 15:41:38 GMT -5
Right. but what do you say about the free will thing? I'm sure you know as well as anyone that God gives us free will...so he is only controlling us as much as we allow him to in our lives, right? That's always been my whole point here. If people are claiming the first two but not living in Godly ways by allowing God to direct their steps.... ?? You know??? I just can't change my thinking on that, I don't think. M.
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Post by zorro unplugged on Sept 14, 2007 15:45:45 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I have to run.....I'll check in later and I'll throw my 2 cents worth out for you. OK?
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 14, 2007 15:54:30 GMT -5
Ok
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Post by electbygrace on Sept 14, 2007 20:41:32 GMT -5
I heard yesterday morning that 50% of church going Christians don't believe that they are saved. Do you? Why or why not? Good question. Yes I do, because i'm trusting the promises of God, by grace through faith. If it depended on me, in any way, then I could not have such assurance. I can fail, no matter my very best intentions. But God is faithful. God's promises that we can hold onto are throughout scripture, there's so many that apply to us personally. So, we have a certain hope, like an anchor for our souls (Heb6:19) - sure and steadfast. We're not in heaven yet, but Christ has entered through the veil where he's placed an anchor for our souls. We will be there with him one day (God has said so). Some of the very strongest proof for me recently has been from Rom8:29-30. Whom God foreknew he also predestinated to be his children. Those he predestinated he called. Those he called he also justified. And those he justified he also glorified. It's like the glory train, IF any one of those applies to us, they all apply.. and we're on that train ride to glory (praise God!). Nothing can prevent you arriving at the destination God has planned.
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savedbyblood
New Member
Here, poochie, poochie, poochie. Want some ground chuck?
Posts: 33
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Post by savedbyblood on Sept 15, 2007 1:10:41 GMT -5
Some time ago in Gospel Meeting the Elder of two sister Workers stated, "Half of you people in this room are going to hell." She then cited some familiar verses:
Mt:24:40: "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
Mt:24:41: ""Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left."
She explained that these verses were meant for professing people only and were not directed to the "others" outside of the Truth! I looked around at all of the Elders and Elders Wives, Super saints, Well-to-doers and better dressed saints and figured I did not have a chance anyway. I didn't pay much attention to the rest of her sermon because I had taken a fishing trip in my mind. Caught a few, too!
Since it was late summer and hot I used Crank Baits deep and my fishing bud and me had his boat in a nearby lake so I got back right before Meeting was over...
Anyway, I figure by her reckoning only about 4% or less church going Christians will make it.
John wrote: 1Jn:5:13: These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Salvation is the gift of Grace bestowed by God the Father unto all who believe (have Faith in) Jesus Christ, God the Son. Works prove out this gift in our lives. By this reckoning all Christians who subscribe freely to this belief will make it to Heaven unless they lose the gift of Salvation through Grace:
Heb:12:15: "Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;"
Some who do have Salvation now will lose it if they are not careful of the influence of Satan.
On to the point of not believing you are saved, you must have faith to be saved. (belief) If you have doubts about being saved after you have met the requirements for salvation:
1. Knowledge that something is true 2. Acceptance that it is true 3. Trust in what you know and accept as true.
Thank you, Zorro unplugged!
Then you are in danger of losing that salvation even if you had attained it at one time.
For many years I believed that I could not know that I was saved until Judgment Day. I believed as I was taught, that if worked hard enough and prayed enough and suffered enough and made it to as many meetings and conventions as was possible and kept myself unspotted from the world (but no handbook) and studied my Bible every day and listened to the Workers I might have a chance of salvation.
Every time I went to a Rodeo or Concert I was darned within myself until I began to see other Professing people there. I see Professing women at the mall with pants for goodness sake! Yep I know who to judge! It's just that I don't judge and never have. It's really difficult to say something when you find a couple of bottles of wine in a professing couple's refrigerator when your's has a couple of beers in it! ( I don't like the taste of wine by the way...)
Peace in Him,
SBB
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Post by shushy on Sept 15, 2007 9:52:17 GMT -5
[Some time ago in Gospel Meeting the Elder of two sister Workers stated, "Half of you people in this room are going to hell."]
This is appalling. I am sure she did not get this from the Lord.
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Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 15, 2007 13:19:11 GMT -5
Just to make it clear, I'm definitely not judging *anyone*....at all! Just sharing my views. Trust me, I don't have far to look if I need someone to judge! (meaning inwardly!) Mich
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 15, 2007 21:22:41 GMT -5
I've enjoyed reading this thread.
To me if we don't believe we are saved, then we are lacking faith.
There are those who believe there is a God, they believe Jesus died and rose again, they believe God WILL save them - but they are not willing to believe God DOES save them NOW.
We are born again by the Word of God. We believe that because God said it. We don't need to ask for proof because that is not believing God, and it proves that we do not take Him at His Word.
God's Word is sure.... we need to be as well!
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Post by shushy on Sept 16, 2007 23:50:22 GMT -5
[God's Word is sure.... we need to be as well! ]
That is so true Wings....I did not have confidence I was saved while I was professing it wasnt until I went to 'other churches' and learned the power of the Word that I had that inner assurance. I give thanks to my Pastor for his persistence in me understanding and believing what the Word says. Thanks to God also for taking me across his path.
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Post by friend on Sept 17, 2007 13:10:57 GMT -5
"Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1Cor 10:12
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Brick
Full Member
Posts: 120
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Post by Brick on Sept 17, 2007 14:30:36 GMT -5
Wanna expound on that, friend? It sounds like you are saying that one should not feel that they are saved. Is that what you are saying? Do you have more scripture than that? How 'bout this?
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. (Rom 3:21-24)
My sinful old heart finds a lot of comfort in those words.
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Post by Scott Ross on Sept 17, 2007 14:48:45 GMT -5
Right on Brick! And how about this? (from Ephesians) Made Alive in Christ 1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Scott
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